The question of whether or not the removable chin bar on Bell Helmet's new Super 2R was capable of withstanding a direct hit provided fodder for numerous heated debates when the helmet was
first announced, with concerns being raised about its ability to provide effective protection in the event of a crash. A full review of the helmet is in the works, one that goes over its fit, function, and ventilation, but since we try to avoid smashing our faces into trees whenever possible, we paid a visit to Bell's helmet testing facilities in Scotts Valley, California, in order to witness the paces the helmet had been put through during its development.
While at the lab, we were able to witness the Super 2R's chin bar being put through three separate testing procedures. The first was the chin bar deflection test, where where a 5 kg mass is dropped from about 0.4 meters to correspond to an impact velocity of 2.8 meters per second, a test that's modeled after the one used for DH certification. Next came a test where the helmet itself is dropped onto an anvil; and finally, a test that Bell's engineers came up with to replicate a glancing blow, the type of impact that's more representative of what actually occurs during a crash.
Of course, all of these tests were performed in a controlled environment, since using human test subjects to evaluate helmet safety isn't exactly an ethically sound method. We still would have liked to see the helmet tested to destruction, something along the lines of what we accomplished during
a visit to Santa Cruz Bicycles a few years ago, but even without getting to snap, smash or crush anything we still appreciate being granted the chance to see the types of impacts that the Super 2R's chin bar can withstand.
Lots of marketing adverts on pinkbike for this bell, after it failed the fullface cert that the met passed, is this trying to convince us that its ok.
Not with that flex, the met has very little, at 6mph it looks bad so might be ok for the climbs, what about 30mph on the way down?
Don't forget than most car crash test are not direct impact (more 50/50 front impact on semi-rigid targets) and at 64km/h, these euro ncap test were sometimes deadly on the first test years, and we are talking >1T steel box with belt straps and airbags.
1.where does it say 2.8mps
2.how do you know how valid are THE ONLY tests in the world for helmets witj chin bar at ASCP?
3.how do you know R2 was submitted to ASCP test?
4.If Parachute passes same chin bar test as D3 then I think something is wrong with testing of downhill helmets. Thank you Bell for highlighting this unintentionally.
5. Sometimes flex is better than direct crack due to too stiff yet brittle material.
6. It is enough to use your own hands, fundamental recognition and logic to measure safety level of a helmet. Just go to a store selling all sorts of helmets. Take a MX helmet and try to squeeze it and flex the chin. Then take a modern Downhill helmet like D3 and do the same, then take a cheap DH helmet (or expensive as Fk Poc Cortex) and repeat the test. Then take parachute or Bell S2R. Here! No test rig needed for you my whiny ass consumer who will never buy a helmet like that anyways, just whine online worrying about safety of people whom you'll never meet, and if you do, you'll think of them: oh what an idiot, enduro trend whore - why won't he just ride in a D3? And you'll smile to yourself unconsciously: I am so reasonable! I need to meet more people that seem stupid to me, and read about more marketing scams to feel good about myself.
How much impact protection does the this chinbar provide relative to the CPSC certification standard and/or to models like your Full 9?
50%, 75%, ??
I'm interested in the 2r as an extra measure of insurance for tech downhills on longer rides where I would never bother to wear/carry a full-face, but before I trust it for flat-out enduro race speeds, I'd like to know just how much extra protection I'm actually buying. If it's merely there to protect against abrasion, that's not going to be enough for a lot of folks.
I understand something is better than nothing but nothing makes me ride safer/slower.
My beard will only stop so much.
I think when you crash at 30kmh, you use your arms and hands to slow down your fall (and that's why the wrists break).
So the actual speed of your head when hitting the ground should be under 30kmh. But yeah, 10kmh isn't enough
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfLD-7bCtME
Once you find and pin your fear, life gets easier! You are so worried about your face, and how much of you use face cream?! It's a helmet with detachable chin guard with unique construction and aesthetics. Nothing more.
Waki: the reason not to wear a full face outside of a bike park is not so much about weight but rather the consideration of walkers coming across. Acceptance of mountainbikers on hiking trail is still limited at the time and hiding your face just makes you look more riot-friendly, not what walkers fancy unfortunately. Yes it's better to wear a full face and stop at walkers than wear an xc lid and pass full gas besides people (including smaller people : kids) who might get a projected stone in their shin or face. But best is surely to combine both positives.
and I don't think wearing a full face or not is because of public perception?
good comments waki, on the money
But when you crash at 30 km/h speed, that doesn't mean you hit an obstacle head on. If you crash at a high speed, you usually slide or roll (unless you hit a tree). In MotoGP they crash at 150 km/h and that doesn't mean their helmet are tested to protect them against a head on collision at the same speed.
I don't have 250 bucks for helmet. Hell, no! It's crazy price. Guess some carbon somwhere in the chin.....
Continue to use my Servo for $35.
But I like this idea.
People like to see other's people face. That's why motorcycles are by some not well perceived, or women wearing a burqa for instance. But now that really gets off topic.
no need to write a letter to the other trail users. hahaha
What why ?
I wrote: I don't have 250 bucks for helmet. It's crazy price for me.
So I use what I have - my Bell Servo.
That's all, man Please, do not generate an excessive reasons ))
(oh, yeah, off topic!)
I don't mind too much about the thread I just can'f afford such expensive helmet just for HOBBY purposes which the biking is.
May be some time these helmets will become low priced, then I will try it.
...and give everyone here one sample helmet for the REAL, I mean f..g REAL test, would be no only of great help, but also GREAT MARKETING!
and in my experience said hiker are more scared when they see my face, than when its hidden by sexy goggles and colorfull and sexy FF and matching kit!!!!!
They go from saying holy shit did you see how scary that guy is to holy shit that guy looks like he knows what he is doing...maybe I should ride and all the chicks will want me too!!!!
Agreed!
But not for 250 bucks!!!!
So, form these time one seems will carry 2 helmets on his back, like a CAMEL: one for the real protection, and one the the "a little added protection".
Of course, third - the lightest xc helmet is on the head.
Just a joke.
I think some of the comments here are misguided and naïve regarding the product, but.... it is the internet.
the argument is that this is way better than a pisspot, any arguments there? very doubtful, in the era of higher speeds from trail bikes and the ever growing enduro market place being the new thing I would suggest this is a good idea, it always feels a bit sketch rattling through rock gardens at 40 kph in an open face lid, this little bit of added protection is only a good thing - would I replace my Carbon full face with this? NO, would I use it over my TLD A1 piss pot? YES damn right.
The only way you would have a crash at that speed or higher speeds and continue the inertia would be if some one put a log in font of your face as you came down the mountain.
Anyway this helmet is not designed for the world cup DH circuit or DH as a matter of fact, its designed for AM and enduro and to be honest I'm sure most of us don't come down the mountain at the speeds the pros do.
Its definitely a solid junction(the chin bar meeting the helmet), and the way I look at it is this:
I ride predominantly DH, on trails that are 90% exposed rock, rock gardens, and embedded boulders everywhere.
Prior to buying the 2R, I had the original Bell Super and a couple dedicated DH helmets.
Because climbing with a DH helmet on SUCKS AZZ, I initially used my Camel Back to carry the DH helmet on my back, but that took forever, so I found an Osprey pack that has WAY better mounts, but I'd still have to take the pack off my back to swap 'em, so I still rarely brought my DH helmet along.
All I do now is slide the chin bar around my neck and pedal up to the top of the hill, mount the thing onto the helmet(it's easier with the helmet on your head, and the whole process takes maybe 20 seconds) and go.
I'm confident the chin bar isn't gonna break off if I face-plant into a giant rock or into an exposed rock surface, and I know for a fact that I will be better off if this happens than I would had I simply been wearing the regular Super(or any other open-face helmet for that matter), and as I said, that's the helmet I'd be wearing.
Will I wear it at Snow Summit or Mammoth? I'll bring it, but I'll at least start off the day wearing the dedicated DH helmet.
Another benefit of the 2R is how much lighter it is than a DH helmet. I used to switch to the Super towards the end of the day, and the last time I superman'd into some rocks. Luckily I hit em right above the visor so I didn't lose any teeth. Next time I'll have a chin bar no matter what.
IMO, the Bell Super 2R DEFINITELY is a jump forward in MTB helmet design and protection. I can't say just how close to a true DH helmet the 2R is protection-wise(and I hope I never find out), but I have full confidence in the thing every time I strap it on.
I, for one, welcome our new XC/AM chin bar-equipped helmet overlords.
So... passes the chinbar test as we can see, but not P.R.
It would be nice to see these Bell tests done with a helmet w/o chinbar- lets see how the face looks after that...
regarding the deflection, I would have thoght this is better than being very rigid as it will absorb impact energy rather than transfering the full impact shock? like a cars crumple zones.
But let's don't overdo it: the rider may became suffocated.
Bell releasing such an AWFUL video, and then remaining silent is massive mistake.
Obviously, they had hoped to alleviate some of the concerns about the true protective abilities of this helmet by releasing the video. But, all it did was make it worse. This is what happens when engineers are allowed to be mouthpieces for a brand.
I bought the helmet because I believe that regardless of its potential shortcomings, it's going to protect my face a hell of a lot better than a half shell helmet.
My criticism lies in Bell's blundering missteps in trying to instill confidence in this helmet.
You know they're reading each and every comment sweating about what their next move should be. Bell, if you are listening, you need to:
A.) Remove the video from Pinkbike, it's only making matters worse.
B.) Invest the time and resources into making a video that explains the testing and standards in a way that people can understand. Don't have some awkward engineer type just standing there gazing off into space.
C.) Don't just sit back and let the Internet decide the fate of your product. You sitting there, silent, is only allowing the groundswell of negativity regarding this helmet build to a critical mass. There will come a point where no amount of advertising on your part will be able to counteract the Internet's public opinion about this helmet.
The video DID help me at least. It offered more visual information and answered some questions about the strength of the chinbar without getting bogged down by a bunch of technical jargon. Or maybe I'm a simpleton who will fall for anything?!?
For engineers (if they even are)...these guys did alright. They both look like riders to me, so it's not like they're pasty desk jockeys peddling their company's junk. The one dude obviously wears a Super--I know those head indentations well :-)
I think public opinion is divided--not lopsided as your post might make it seem. And for that...Bell is doing quite well. They've made a product that clearly serves a purpose and that has garnered lots of attention.
All the best
waki troll
Or:
What if the face guard hadn't been there?
I read an article in Dirt Rag that made mention of the S2R being "tested" at Oregon Enduro and that the overall impression was positive, and DR tends not to regurgitate ad copy.
If its a pass, then why isnt it certified as a full face helmet? Which to me says it fails the test.
It's not meant for that.
I am planning on buying this helmet if it fits. It's not supposed to be a DH helmet, and I won't be getting rid of my DH full face. This helmet is for trail riding where you want a half-shell on the way up and a chin bar on the way down.
However it does alleviate concerns that it won't break off due to being removable or shatter and stab me in the face, and assuming I don't get run over by a bus (or some other squashing like effect like this test) then it looks like a great alternative between a peanut hat and a DH FF.
~ Evel Knievel
This is going to get some ill informed newbie hurt from someone at a shop who thinks he knows it all and the rider goes baby DH'ing and wrecks bad.
Plain and simple market it as a XC helmet ONLY! That is what it is and only ever will be.