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Top 5 rear shocks

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Top 5 rear shocks
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Posted: Jul 23, 2010 at 7:48 Quote
marquis wrote:
tokyopop03 wrote:
undercoverfreak wrote:
So by your logic no other component other than geometry has an effect on a riders speed? Put differently, provided two bikes had the exact same geometry and the same rider they would be equally fast no matter what the spec was?


I'm not saying Geometry is the only thing that can enhance the rider's outcome in speed. There is a lot of variables that come into play, but I'm just saying that Geometry is probably the most important factor of helping a rider, since it is the foundation of the bike. Slack Head Angle, BB height, Wheel base ect... Most likely it will help the rider improve more then just a suspension upgrade. i'm just proving a point how people think "components will make them THAT much faster" hey maybe it might? but it only goes so far. The only thing that will really enhance a rider's benefit of the Geometry of the bike, and the mental aspect.

If you were given any bike of your choice with any suspension/ component you desire, do you think you can crack down a World Cup podium? think about it. Yes suspension has a role in helping the rider in certain variables, but there are others that most defiantly come into play that will help the rider ride faster with confidence.

Its just an opinion that i've made through the years talking to people Like, Darren (push'd) Patrick (Elka) and many other riders, what can help riders drastically improve (speed wise) Obviously there is going to be disagreements.

If you feel that strongly then why get your dhx pushed,you can't say suspension has no affect then go out and get your shock professionally tuned.

Can't you not see the irony at all in that.



I got my DHX pushed because the shock was blown. It was cheaper, and faster for me to send it to push for a rebuild, rather then send it out to Fox. The bridge in the resivouar was cracked along with some internals. So might as well get it tuned if everything else was broken anyway for the same cost to rep[lace it at Fox.
flag Nobble
Posted: Jul 23, 2010 at 7:53 Quote
This guy reminds me of my friend who used to insist that the only thing that made a difference to the way suspension of a bike worked was the angle the shock was mounted at. Facepalm Madder
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Posted: Jul 23, 2010 at 8:03 Quote
Nobble wrote:
This guy reminds me of my friend who used to insist that the only thing that made a difference to the way suspension of a bike worked was the angle the shock was mounted at. Facepalm Madder


Suspension is influenced by shock position FYI , on top of many other things. This is more closely related to leverage ratio's ect... Dead Horse
flag Nobble
Posted: Jul 23, 2010 at 8:06 Quote
tokyopop03 wrote:
Nobble wrote:
This guy reminds me of my friend who used to insist that the only thing that made a difference to the way suspension of a bike worked was the angle the shock was mounted at. Facepalm Madder


Suspension is influenced by shock position FYI , on top of many other things. This is more closely related to leverage ratio's ect...
THe biggest thing that affects the way a shock works is the ratio of the linkage that drives it, not the angle its mounted at.
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Posted: Jul 23, 2010 at 8:10 Quote
Nobble wrote:
tokyopop03 wrote:
Nobble wrote:
This guy reminds me of my friend who used to insist that the only thing that made a difference to the way suspension of a bike worked was the angle the shock was mounted at. Facepalm Madder


Suspension is influenced by shock position FYI , on top of many other things. This is more closely related to leverage ratio's ect...
THe biggest thing that affects the way a shock works is the ratio of the linkage that drives it, not the angle its mounted at.


This is what I said exactly. You just made my point even further. Be a little more specific on your original post, So old people like me can understand what you really mean. But yes you are correct mounting the shock resivouar up, down or whatever wont make a difference in suspension performance.
flag ajax-ripper
Posted: Jul 23, 2010 at 8:24 Quote
tokyopop03 wrote:
Nobble wrote:
This guy reminds me of my friend who used to insist that the only thing that made a difference to the way suspension of a bike worked was the angle the shock was mounted at. Facepalm Madder


Suspension is influenced by shock position FYI , on top of many other things. This is more closely related to leverage ratio's ect... Dead Horse
That is false. By your deffinition your shock will preform diffrently if your turning, going up or down a hill because the angle it is positioned at is constantly changing as both the bike moves and the terrain changes. The mounting position HAS zero effect on how the suspension feels. if you have two bikes with all the same compression ratios, axle paths, travel, geometry, anti-squat lines, but with differently oriented shocks guess what it woul work the excact same.
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Posted: Jul 23, 2010 at 8:35 Quote
ajax-ripper wrote:
tokyopop03 wrote:
Nobble wrote:
This guy reminds me of my friend who used to insist that the only thing that made a difference to the way suspension of a bike worked was the angle the shock was mounted at. Facepalm Madder


Suspension is influenced by shock position FYI , on top of many other things. This is more closely related to leverage ratio's ect... Dead Horse
That is false. By your deffinition your shock will preform diffrently if your turning, going up or down a hill because the angle it is positioned at is constantly changing as both the bike moves and the terrain changes. The mounting position HAS zero effect on how the suspension feels. if you have two bikes with all the same compression ratios, axle paths, travel, geometry, anti-squat lines, but with differently oriented shocks guess what it woul work the excact same.


What are you trying to conclude here?

My point is correct, and what I was able to get from your post you also prove my point. Have you looked at frame designs with option shock mounts? If you ever played with a bike with this feature you will notice the shock and the suspension behaves a little different. This is due to the shock's new position on the frame. You've altered the shock leverage ratio, which ultimately changes the way the shock feels / behaves. Example the new Carbon 2011 V10 frame. One shock mount changes the travel to 8.5 inches of rear travel, the other 10. These mounts on the lower link are about 1mm apart, but have HUGE effects on the frame. You've just gained 1.5 inches of rear travel !!! As a result you changed the ratio of the bike and the shock. Even Santa Cruz workers explain how you have to swap springs out and change your rebound / compression settings because the shock uses a different leverage which increases or decreases leverage ratio which changes the behavior of the shock.

Also we've already explained that mounting the shock in different orientations does not have any effect on the suspension. Your a little late there.
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Posted: Jul 23, 2010 at 8:42 Quote
On top of that yes, leverage ratio as you compress the suspension changes. Look at a VPP design, the suspension is a regressive, while the contact system on a Commencal is Progressive The guys at Santa Cruz and Intense uses shock to manipulate how the suspension works. As you go though the travel the suspensionat first is progressive and then get linear and regresses to follow the shocks behavior. Thats why many people say VPP frame designs are easy to pop off of obstacles. The Commencal uses the contact system. The system is totally different from the VPP. Its a progressive design, The rocker links manipulate the leverage ratio of the bike so the shock gets more progressive and harder as you compress it.
flag ajax-ripper
Posted: Jul 23, 2010 at 21:46 Quote
tokyopop03 wrote:
ajax-ripper wrote:
tokyopop03 wrote:



Suspension is influenced by shock position FYI , on top of many other things. This is more closely related to leverage ratio's ect... Dead Horse
That is false. By your deffinition your shock will preform diffrently if your turning, going up or down a hill because the angle it is positioned at is constantly changing as both the bike moves and the terrain changes. The mounting position HAS zero effect on how the suspension feels. if you have two bikes with all the same compression ratios, axle paths, travel, geometry, anti-squat lines, but with differently oriented shocks guess what it woul work the excact same.


What are you trying to conclude here?

My point is correct, and what I was able to get from your post you also prove my point. Have you looked at frame designs with option shock mounts? If you ever played with a bike with this feature you will notice the shock and the suspension behaves a little different. This is due to the shock's new position on the frame. You've altered the shock leverage ratio, which ultimately changes the way the shock feels / behaves. Example the new Carbon 2011 V10 frame. One shock mount changes the travel to 8.5 inches of rear travel, the other 10. These mounts on the lower link are about 1mm apart, but have HUGE effects on the frame. You've just gained 1.5 inches of rear travel !!! As a result you changed the ratio of the bike and the shock. Even Santa Cruz workers explain how you have to swap springs out and change your rebound / compression settings because the shock uses a different leverage which increases or decreases leverage ratio which changes the behavior of the shock.

Also we've already explained that mounting the shock in different orientations does not have any effect on the suspension. Your a little late there.
Changing the position of the shock with out manipulating the rest of the linkage will change how the suspention acts. If you have one bike with a vertically mounted shock and another with a horazontaly mounted one if all of the rates ECT were the same the bike would not ride differently. Changing where the shock is mounted with out the other pivots being changed along with it tonnes of things can change.
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Posted: Jul 23, 2010 at 22:41 Quote
ajax-ripper wrote:
tokyopop03 wrote:
ajax-ripper wrote:

That is false. By your deffinition your shock will preform diffrently if your turning, going up or down a hill because the angle it is positioned at is constantly changing as both the bike moves and the terrain changes. The mounting position HAS zero effect on how the suspension feels. if you have two bikes with all the same compression ratios, axle paths, travel, geometry, anti-squat lines, but with differently oriented shocks guess what it woul work the excact same.


What are you trying to conclude here?

My point is correct, and what I was able to get from your post you also prove my point. Have you looked at frame designs with option shock mounts? If you ever played with a bike with this feature you will notice the shock and the suspension behaves a little different. This is due to the shock's new position on the frame. You've altered the shock leverage ratio, which ultimately changes the way the shock feels / behaves. Example the new Carbon 2011 V10 frame. One shock mount changes the travel to 8.5 inches of rear travel, the other 10. These mounts on the lower link are about 1mm apart, but have HUGE effects on the frame. You've just gained 1.5 inches of rear travel !!! As a result you changed the ratio of the bike and the shock. Even Santa Cruz workers explain how you have to swap springs out and change your rebound / compression settings because the shock uses a different leverage which increases or decreases leverage ratio which changes the behavior of the shock.

Also we've already explained that mounting the shock in different orientations does not have any effect on the suspension. Your a little late there.
Changing the position of the shock with out manipulating the rest of the linkage will change how the suspention acts. If you have one bike with a vertically mounted shock and another with a horazontaly mounted one if all of the rates ECT were the same the bike would not ride differently. Changing where the shock is mounted with out the other pivots being changed along with it tonnes of things can change.


We weren't talking about that earlier. You got right, but what we were saying earlier is different. I was saying if you mount the shock same position, but with the resivouar up or down does not effect the suspension.
flag mrfast
Posted: Aug 22, 2010 at 10:23 Quote
hey, id just like to ask you guys who seem to be experienced with several types of shocks if itd be worth the upgrade from a marzocchi roco r to a fox dhx5 shock. i can get quite a good price on the fox, but if its not worth the upgrade of 200 pounds il not do it. will it be worth the upgrade for absorbtion and for a more tunable DH race bike. its to go on a commencal supreme dh 2009
flag mrfast
Posted: Aug 22, 2010 at 10:29 Quote
timlake wrote:
Yes.
i thought it would be, i think il order it tomorrow, do you know if it will need a specific shock tune for my linkage?
flag edd-stevens
Posted: Aug 22, 2010 at 10:44 Quote
mrfast wrote:
timlake wrote:
Yes.
i thought it would be, i think il order it tomorrow, do you know if it will need a specific shock tune for my linkage?

I would not upgrade.

 


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