Poll: Who is the Greatest Downhill Racer of All Time?
I'm not sure I like the term GOAT. However, what really frustrates me is somebody being referred to as a and not the GOAT. It's just nonsensical.
Mountain biking, compared to others, is a relatively young sport. It's also a sport where there is a perception of a near-level playing field among the sports elite teams and riders. Whether or not this is true is for another time. However, I think it's more of an apples-to-apples than something like football, where comparing Dixie Dean to a modern center forward is almost pointless, or similar comparisons with Juan Manuel Fangio in Formula One.
But World Cup downhill has been around for a mere 30 years and so comparisons are easier. Not to sway you one way or another, but as a tidbit, for 23 of those years Greg Minnaar has been competing at the pointy end. To help provide context of how competitive the field was in any given year, I've included the differences represented as a percentage of the times for the elite world championship podium of that year, so you too can make wildly speculative assumptions about the depth of the field in regards to talent.
Female Elites
![photo]()
![photo]()
Male Elites
![photo]()
![photo]()
The minimum criteria for this poll is that the rider in question must have won the UCI downhill World Cup overall at least twice, and not to have been consistently beaten by another member on the list. There have been plenty of breakout stars, or athlete's that have been unstoppable on a certain track or weekend. This isn't a poll to see who you think has achieved the highest level for a short period. It's a poll to see who has added the most, and coupled incredible feats with incredible consistency. It's also worth considering just how dominate some of those periods were, or what their contribution to the elite field was.
Has downhill become more competitive as the years have gone on? Well, if we take the closeness of the racing as an an indication, apparently not. There is a slight skew, but I would say it argues that the tightest racing was in the latter part of the 00s.
![Anne Caroline was on it today stomping out a first place for every stage.]()
Anne-Caroline Chausson (5 overall, 9 world championships, 40 wins) - A true great of mountain biking, Chausson has won a staggering thirteen senior world championships across various disciplines. That's not to mention three junior world championships and the Olympic gold medal or her forty World Cup wins and multiple EWS victories. By stats alone, Chausson should be the out and out winner. To choose anyone else would be predicated upon the idea that racing was somehow easier, or the competition not as fierce in the 90s. While it may be true that the sport was different, there was also more out of industry sponsors and, at times, arguably more money and widespread commercial appeal, and pressure, heaped upon the riders.
![Green through all the splits by a massive margin Rachel Atherton set the fastest time early in the race and held it all the way to the end.]()
Rachel Atherton (6 overall, 5 world championships, 39 wins) - Winning her first World Cup overall, as well as her first world championships in 2008, she fought many world-class adversaries over the next decade including Ragot, Carpenter, Seagrave, Nicole and Hannah. The were years where it seemed like for anyone else to win she had to suffer some level of misfortune. Not only the second on the all time list of downhill World Cup wins and also a five time world champion in elite, she also had a "perfect season" in 2016 as she won each round of the World Cup. After suffering an injury in Les Gets to her ankle at the Les Gets world cup in 2019, and the birth of her first child in 2021, she no longer races full time. However, rumours persist of a comeback.
![Greg Minnaar]()
Greg Minnaar (3 overall, 4 world championships, 22 wins) - He's definitely got Rob Warner's stamp of approval, and with good reason. Not only is his longevity remarkable, but also his resurgence back to the front after several difficult years with a shoulder issue in the early to mid 2010s. It's strange to think that there are any "what ifs" with Minnaar's career, but as the poster boy for 29" wheels and bigger bikes, many do wonder aloud what if the sizing-revolution had come 10 years earlier. History shows that Minnaar hits his stride and wins a world title around every nine years - don't count him out in 2030. He won his first World Cup at age 18, and has featured on nearly 90 podiums from just over 150 World Cup races.
![Warning shots were fired last time out in Lenzerheide but it appears something is once again clicking for Aaron Gwin. Will we see true Gwizzard form in the US or legendary Sainte Anne]()
Aaron Gwin (5 overall, 20 wins) - While he may not have become a world champion (yet), he changed downhill with his sheer consistency and mindset. On his day, he seemed to be unbeatable. After dominating aboard a Trek Session, Gwin moved to Specialized and, despite a slow start and a lot of negative speculation, came back to winnings ways. A late comer to downhill riding let alone racing, he established himself as the man to beat from 2010 - 2017. Injuries and have derailed his seasons in recent years but I don't think he's done just yet. A return to podium form with his Intense Factory Racing team shows there's plenty of speed, and potentially wins, left in him. Like Sam Hill, responsible for some iconic World Cup runs in MSA, Val di Sole and Windham.
![photo]()
Steve Peat (3 overall, 1 world championships, 17 wins) - There was a time where it seemed you had to be well north of six foot to ride for the Santa Cruz Syndicate, with Peat, Rennie and Minnaar all well above average height. Seeing Peat riding his 26" wheeled bike now looks like a strange sight, but his perseverance to finally win his maiden world championships was a fire that kept burning and kept him competitive far beyond many of his peers. Peat's 17 World Cup wins came against many of the other greats on this list, and his career spanned the early days of a fringe sport right through to the more established days of mainstream coverage.
![DH legend Nico Vouilloz joined the industry race with Team Lapierre.]()
Nicolas Vouilloz (5 overall, 7 world championships, 16 wins) - Along with his compatriot Anne-Caroline Chausson, dominated the world championships for the best part of a decade. Known for his meticulous approach and analytical style, he spent nearly his entire downhill career in the rainbow jersey. In fact, if we take juniors into account, there was only one world championships between 1992 and 2002 that he didn't win. He could has possibly have won even more if not for his desire to try his hand at rallying, in which he competed in the WRC from 2001 to 2006. He returned to competitive mountain biking in 2007 at Champery and was an early adopter, and winner in the EWS.
![photo]()
Sabrina Jonnier (5 overall, 2 world championships, 16 wins) - After winning her first overall at 22 in 2003, she would win a further four titles by 2010, finishing second in the years she didn't. The idea of French domination certainly isn't a new one; along with Celine Gros, Jonnier's wins meant that there were only 2 years between 1998 and 2010 that the overall was won by rider of any other nationality. Two world championships also followed before retiring from World Cup racing in 2012, in no small part due to a crash sustained in practice in Pietermaritzburg. Sandwiched between the domination of Chausson and Atherton, she's sometimes overlooked. However, there are many elite female riders from the 2010s that would cite her as their inspiration.
![The gold and green figure and bike of Sam Hill camouflaging itself perfectly into the gold and green of the Hafjell terrain on the last run of practice.]()
Sam Hill (2 overall, 3 world championships, 13 wins) - Similar to Gwin, he arguably upped the level in elite mountain bike racing and changed people's approach. His muted, calm style, flew in the face of what people expected of riders attacking on flat pedals. He was competitive in the elite category as a junior and has contributed some of the most iconic runs to mountain biking. If wins in MSA and Meribel weren't evidence enough of his appetite for fighting at the front, being a three time overall winner in the later parts of his career in the EWS must put it beyond all doubt. His rides in Champery and Val Di Sole are simply iconic.
![Only the last meters of track left for Pierron. It was green all the way with a few seconds to spare. Eruption in Les Gets is a go.]()
Amaury Pierron (2 overall, 10 wins) - In a similar stage of his career to Bruni in that they're arguably both in their prime. Pierron though had a different rise to the top. Although he has a reputation as somebody who was more of a slow burner in his junior and early elite career, the stats don't really back that up - albeit his first year junior didn't set the world alight, but he won World Cups in second. Coming into elite, he scored 3 top 20s in his first year, before his first podium and top tens the next. A quieter 2017 followed before he announced just what he could do in 2018, when he won his first overall. A difficult time away with injury followed before coming back to claim his second. On his day, he seems unbeatable.
![Full gas and determination to the line for Loic Bruni but it was not enough to hold off Amaury Pierron]()
Loic Bruni (2 overall, 5 world championships, 7 wins) - It feels as if Bruni has so much of his career ahead of him, even if he won his first world championship way back in 2015. Whilst the rainbow stripes came quickly for Bruni, it took several more years for him to unlock the same form and success on the World Cup circuit, although he is now of course one of the most established riders on the scene, and arguably its biggest star. Much like Vouilloz, it seems he can execute a race plan like few others and is now a five-time world champion.
Mountain biking, compared to others, is a relatively young sport. It's also a sport where there is a perception of a near-level playing field among the sports elite teams and riders. Whether or not this is true is for another time. However, I think it's more of an apples-to-apples than something like football, where comparing Dixie Dean to a modern center forward is almost pointless, or similar comparisons with Juan Manuel Fangio in Formula One.
But World Cup downhill has been around for a mere 30 years and so comparisons are easier. Not to sway you one way or another, but as a tidbit, for 23 of those years Greg Minnaar has been competing at the pointy end. To help provide context of how competitive the field was in any given year, I've included the differences represented as a percentage of the times for the elite world championship podium of that year, so you too can make wildly speculative assumptions about the depth of the field in regards to talent.
Female Elites
Male Elites
The minimum criteria for this poll is that the rider in question must have won the UCI downhill World Cup overall at least twice, and not to have been consistently beaten by another member on the list. There have been plenty of breakout stars, or athlete's that have been unstoppable on a certain track or weekend. This isn't a poll to see who you think has achieved the highest level for a short period. It's a poll to see who has added the most, and coupled incredible feats with incredible consistency. It's also worth considering just how dominate some of those periods were, or what their contribution to the elite field was.
Has downhill become more competitive as the years have gone on? Well, if we take the closeness of the racing as an an indication, apparently not. There is a slight skew, but I would say it argues that the tightest racing was in the latter part of the 00s.
Anne-Caroline Chausson (5 overall, 9 world championships, 40 wins) - A true great of mountain biking, Chausson has won a staggering thirteen senior world championships across various disciplines. That's not to mention three junior world championships and the Olympic gold medal or her forty World Cup wins and multiple EWS victories. By stats alone, Chausson should be the out and out winner. To choose anyone else would be predicated upon the idea that racing was somehow easier, or the competition not as fierce in the 90s. While it may be true that the sport was different, there was also more out of industry sponsors and, at times, arguably more money and widespread commercial appeal, and pressure, heaped upon the riders.
Rachel Atherton (6 overall, 5 world championships, 39 wins) - Winning her first World Cup overall, as well as her first world championships in 2008, she fought many world-class adversaries over the next decade including Ragot, Carpenter, Seagrave, Nicole and Hannah. The were years where it seemed like for anyone else to win she had to suffer some level of misfortune. Not only the second on the all time list of downhill World Cup wins and also a five time world champion in elite, she also had a "perfect season" in 2016 as she won each round of the World Cup. After suffering an injury in Les Gets to her ankle at the Les Gets world cup in 2019, and the birth of her first child in 2021, she no longer races full time. However, rumours persist of a comeback.
Greg Minnaar (3 overall, 4 world championships, 22 wins) - He's definitely got Rob Warner's stamp of approval, and with good reason. Not only is his longevity remarkable, but also his resurgence back to the front after several difficult years with a shoulder issue in the early to mid 2010s. It's strange to think that there are any "what ifs" with Minnaar's career, but as the poster boy for 29" wheels and bigger bikes, many do wonder aloud what if the sizing-revolution had come 10 years earlier. History shows that Minnaar hits his stride and wins a world title around every nine years - don't count him out in 2030. He won his first World Cup at age 18, and has featured on nearly 90 podiums from just over 150 World Cup races.
Aaron Gwin (5 overall, 20 wins) - While he may not have become a world champion (yet), he changed downhill with his sheer consistency and mindset. On his day, he seemed to be unbeatable. After dominating aboard a Trek Session, Gwin moved to Specialized and, despite a slow start and a lot of negative speculation, came back to winnings ways. A late comer to downhill riding let alone racing, he established himself as the man to beat from 2010 - 2017. Injuries and have derailed his seasons in recent years but I don't think he's done just yet. A return to podium form with his Intense Factory Racing team shows there's plenty of speed, and potentially wins, left in him. Like Sam Hill, responsible for some iconic World Cup runs in MSA, Val di Sole and Windham.
Steve Peat (3 overall, 1 world championships, 17 wins) - There was a time where it seemed you had to be well north of six foot to ride for the Santa Cruz Syndicate, with Peat, Rennie and Minnaar all well above average height. Seeing Peat riding his 26" wheeled bike now looks like a strange sight, but his perseverance to finally win his maiden world championships was a fire that kept burning and kept him competitive far beyond many of his peers. Peat's 17 World Cup wins came against many of the other greats on this list, and his career spanned the early days of a fringe sport right through to the more established days of mainstream coverage.
Nicolas Vouilloz (5 overall, 7 world championships, 16 wins) - Along with his compatriot Anne-Caroline Chausson, dominated the world championships for the best part of a decade. Known for his meticulous approach and analytical style, he spent nearly his entire downhill career in the rainbow jersey. In fact, if we take juniors into account, there was only one world championships between 1992 and 2002 that he didn't win. He could has possibly have won even more if not for his desire to try his hand at rallying, in which he competed in the WRC from 2001 to 2006. He returned to competitive mountain biking in 2007 at Champery and was an early adopter, and winner in the EWS.
Sabrina Jonnier (5 overall, 2 world championships, 16 wins) - After winning her first overall at 22 in 2003, she would win a further four titles by 2010, finishing second in the years she didn't. The idea of French domination certainly isn't a new one; along with Celine Gros, Jonnier's wins meant that there were only 2 years between 1998 and 2010 that the overall was won by rider of any other nationality. Two world championships also followed before retiring from World Cup racing in 2012, in no small part due to a crash sustained in practice in Pietermaritzburg. Sandwiched between the domination of Chausson and Atherton, she's sometimes overlooked. However, there are many elite female riders from the 2010s that would cite her as their inspiration.
Sam Hill (2 overall, 3 world championships, 13 wins) - Similar to Gwin, he arguably upped the level in elite mountain bike racing and changed people's approach. His muted, calm style, flew in the face of what people expected of riders attacking on flat pedals. He was competitive in the elite category as a junior and has contributed some of the most iconic runs to mountain biking. If wins in MSA and Meribel weren't evidence enough of his appetite for fighting at the front, being a three time overall winner in the later parts of his career in the EWS must put it beyond all doubt. His rides in Champery and Val Di Sole are simply iconic.
Amaury Pierron (2 overall, 10 wins) - In a similar stage of his career to Bruni in that they're arguably both in their prime. Pierron though had a different rise to the top. Although he has a reputation as somebody who was more of a slow burner in his junior and early elite career, the stats don't really back that up - albeit his first year junior didn't set the world alight, but he won World Cups in second. Coming into elite, he scored 3 top 20s in his first year, before his first podium and top tens the next. A quieter 2017 followed before he announced just what he could do in 2018, when he won his first overall. A difficult time away with injury followed before coming back to claim his second. On his day, he seems unbeatable.
Loic Bruni (2 overall, 5 world championships, 7 wins) - It feels as if Bruni has so much of his career ahead of him, even if he won his first world championship way back in 2015. Whilst the rainbow stripes came quickly for Bruni, it took several more years for him to unlock the same form and success on the World Cup circuit, although he is now of course one of the most established riders on the scene, and arguably its biggest star. Much like Vouilloz, it seems he can execute a race plan like few others and is now a five-time world champion.
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Which is more difficult, beating three decent riders, or beating 80 absolute pinners?
Dumb argument. She beat all the best girls during the time in which she raced and beat the hell out of them, just like all the other GOATS I listed above.
If a chimpanzee beats 60 other chimps in a fight in the chimp enclosure, and a gorilla beats 45 other gorillas in the gorilla enclosure, would it be declared that the chimp was the hardest ape? No, because the gorilla could rip the chimp's head off and sh1t down its neck if they had a smash up in the same enclosure.
This is basically the same thing.
I know the woman are really good and faster than me etc. The fact remains that separate categories for men and women prove what everyone already knows - competition between the sexes isn't fair because the men are better. Therefore we cannot declare a woman to be the best ever.
QED
So, if you want to by math, Anne is the GOAT (more races wins, more titles, more podiums). If you want to go by contribution to the sport, I am willing to put a lot of money on the fact that she has exposed to the sport to more female riders than any of the male athletes on the list did for men's racing. Most of those guys raced after the sport was well established for men. And to top that off, she wins in multiple disciplines.
So, you can have your race of men vs women and declare then man the best based off of perceived physical advantages, but there is a lot more to the discussion than that. Greatness isn't always about wins and loses.
A lot of people would argue that Conor McDavid is a better skilled hockey player than Wayne Gretzky was, but do we call him the GOAT because of his skill? Nope, Gretzky is still the greatest of all time in hockey because of what he did, during his time and the competition he competed against.
its like how the Paralympics isn't as prestigious as the Olympics
White Knights in the thread: "you all suck at MATH, the GIRLZ had MOAR WINZ!" (completely ignores graph at the top of the article)
White Knights also in the thread: "but but but there's MOAR TO IT than ABILITY or SPEED!" (ignores the purpose of racing entirely)
So which is it, my brave & stunning male feminists?
Look, you can cope all day long trying to redefine "greatness" but you all need to refer to the graph at the top of the article. We're talking about the best rider of all time. "Domination" in a separate field with time splits that are magnitudes greater than the mens' field says nothing outside of "this is far less competitive."
We have this thing called "world cup" that determines who the fastest riders are, and if we didn't separate men and women you'd never see a sponsored female rider, ever. We *should* be talking about the best male rider and best female rider because your average pre-pubescent grom at a local elite races is smashing the women's podium times all season long. Since Pinkbike felt it was woker to combine the fields in their attempt to crown the GoaT, they've excluded women from the running.
And besides, why do the time gaps matter? It doesn’t matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning.
the idea that a woman can be the "greatest of all time" in any sport where there is a male category is laughable.
look, they are good.....for women. but if there were no gender categories, no woman ever would crack the top 50 pro DH racers.
You point out an obvious disparity between men and women, and it would be unfair to directly compare the two. That’s the reason why we have the two categories. Since then it’s unfair to compare them on race day, why is okay to compare them now and denounce the women’s achievements as being less?
On another note, these discussions are somewhat useless. I'm old. I've seen all these folks ride. They are amazing athletes and have entertained me for years. I prefer Nico on the men's side. That guy was fun to watch. Who cares if he was the goat. I liked his style and he made me want to ride more and get better. I feel the same when I can see Goldstone ride today.
It’s not a question of all out performance, it’s about who was the winningest, most successful racer. It’s ACC.
I was the best there ever was, playing against nowhere near the best there ever was.....it doesn't make me the best there ever was.....It makes me good *for a kid playing against less good kids*. same as female DH racers, and even more so if you go all the way back to ACC days when there were several orders of magnitude less quality female riders. Its like you driving around the Nurburgring in a Ferrari, followed by your 8 year old Niece in a Clapped out miata, and then you proclaiming to be the best car driver of all time because you beat her.
Why are you pretending you don't know this?
Her coming out of retirement, training for the BMX olympics and then winning is LEGENDARY!!!
Minnaar has some unreal stats, but for me he isn't the GOAT. He has won some races that I didn't think he would win over the oast couple of seasons, but he has never had that aura of invincibiility that Gwin had for most of 2011-2016.
I guess that's why this is such an interesting debate, because we all have our own opinions.
//
FWIW I reckon that in the future it's entirely possible for a woman to win a race with a time that would beat the men. Unlikely but possible. As more women get into it from a younger age, there is likely to be one that can compete physically at some point. Clearly there are girls with balls coming through like the one at Hardline and the one that sends that massive drop that keeps coming up on my Instagram.
And for Minaar he is a good rider, has been for a long time but definitely never been dominant to the extent Pierron or Gwin have been when in form and if/when one of those will have more wins he will actually deserve the tittle. I feel Minaar fanboys are blowing his reputation way out of proportion, I can recall his heydays and he never was like Hill, Vouilloz, Gwin, Pierron or Bruni, at least here, but now that he is older and past his prime he has way more fanboyz than ever ... go figure !
One thing that hasn’t been discussed, but makes an interesting argument is the timeframe over which someone has been winning. That has to be Minnaar. If just looking at the data provided (number of overalls, wins, championships) I have to say ACC. But if you were to take the long term success into consideration, then I’d pick Minnaar.
The difficulty of this whole argument is that we are trying to make an absolute, superlative statement to define who the greatest is. The most reasonable way to do this is through objective, measurable data. Using subjective or difficult to define data points is tenuous at best. Perhaps if someone spent enough time with the data, they could analyze the performance of each athlete in greater detail to define certain mathematical coefficients to weight things like how big the field was, how large the winning gaps were, etc.
But yeah… he has the numbers due to a very long career. Average wins per season must be approx one per year. That’s not dominance, it’s consistency.
For me consistency does not a goat make, brilliance does.
It depends on one’s definition if greatest of all time.
Don’t play dumb!
A woman will never be the outright best at any sport, just like a man will never be the outright best at giving birth.
My point is that it is difficult to objectively judge some of these things and we haven’t been given sufficient information to fully analyze these factors.
But let's get to where you decided to be sensible because it's an excellent place to start, i.e. trying to define what it means to be the greatest.
"The most reasonable way to do this is through objective, measurable data." And then we get to the question of WHICH data? It's a fun discussion, and people can bring interesting pieces of data, with which to measure.
The ability to win under pressure is a valid way to look at it, but how do we objectively measure the way pressure affects different people? The ability to ride the track when it's at its worst is worth considering.
At least we can agree it's more than just # of wins.
Anyway, you're free to consider whoever you want the goat.
You could say Kovarik is the greatest as he had the biggest winning margin - 14 second or so at Ft Bill?
Minnaar is not the goat. He only wins on easy tracks and 29ers saved his career.
The facts are, your goat got torn a new arsehole by Gwinner.
What’s Greg’s biggest winning margin, how many wins has he had in a single season, how many shit your pants crazy tracks has he won on?
But the poll results may be a reflection of how many of the voters can relate to Mr Minn more than than they do to Chausson or Vouillez, a generational gap maybe.
Feelings over facts: story of our times
Only his friends call him Norby
And he’s not done yet
Nico, Peat, Sam, Gwin, Athertons, Amaury, Loic. Literally every other male on this list have all been bested by Minnaar.
Dude has been truely competitive for 3 DECADES. The only other athlete I can thing of that can touch that is Kelly Slater.
Also look at his history in the sport. Rode that Honda from outer space to a world championship.
Has been part of the Syndicate team for years, the one that all the young kids look up to.
Young kids still look up to this 40 year old bloke as the pinnacle of the sport. He's been winning world champs for longer than one of his current team mates has been alive!
I bet if you asked all the current riders, they would all say GM.
Minnaar is the GoaT due to level of competition (keep in mind, his career goes hand in hand with Gwin, arguably the 2nd greatest ever) and length of wins. The Gwin part is extremely relevant. Obviously Nico and Steve had all kinds of battles, but again, Minnaar has been battling all these guys AND dudes like Loic and Amaury now... And he's still catching dubs and podiums left and right.
If you were to add up points from finishes at each event for all riders, presumably Minnaar is on top and by a long way. But aint nobody got time to go back and develop a balanced scoring system (based on amount of entries maybe) for every results or whatever.
Also, its impossible to compare mens field to womens field due to talent pool. It's only really hit a new level recently (as mens has as well if were being honest) and we're seeing a lot more diff names on the top slot each event.
Anne has a ton of the highest differentials in times for wins, which on one hand seems like a really good thing... But once it happens enough it just highlights how there wasn't a good level of competition. Would be better to find out who is finding those tenths of a second on days where everyone is putting down their best run down the mountain and the top 5 is separated by like a second and a half.
Flamesuit on.
Back in the day it was funny to hear of like one of the best dudes taking a full tumble, taking 10-15 seconds to get back up or whatever, and still winning. That don't fly anymore lol
She will always be the GOAT.
Whut?
For me its the riders that changed the sport. Nico with training, bike development, suspension, geometry and then developed bikes with Max that became the Commencal Supreme eventually.
Then Sam Hill changed the bikes again, low, slack and wide bars and the alternate lines and riding style. See his podacat from years ago which has been commented on before where he talks about Greg complaining to the UCI and getting them to cut out roots and rocks that he doesn't like on the track. That alone cancels him out. Hill showed how fast people could go and the others caught up, same as Nico did.
Minaar didn't do any of that, he adopted it after and has been fast and the most winning. Reading through the other comments and there is the argument that Greg competed against Tomac, Nico and all the others and won, but then argue that the sport wasn't competitive back then. So, if we can't talk about others being great from the late 90s, early 2000s, then why even count Gregs stats from then. He still didn't demolish them anyway.
I think the argument is useless anyway but don't understand why people can be so one way or the other, as everyone has their favourites and that's all it really is
I grew up with a kid who was a swimmer. We started in 7th grade and almost immediately he was age group champion at every stroke and every distance he swam.
He got promoted to the high school team while we were still in junior high. He immediately became state champion in every stroke he swam and at every distance he raced.
Dude gets a full ride scholarship to ASU. During his 4 years he makes it to the NCAA national championships in both short and long course. He made it to nationals 2 more years after college, just swimming on his own.
Suffice it to say guy was a phenomenal athlete. A couple years after he retired we are sitting around watching the Olympics on TV. I don't remember what year it was, so not sure where they were, but we were watching swimming.
So we saw the women race the 200 breast. They posted the times, and my friend looks over at me says, "Wow! I would have gotten the Bronze!". We both had a good laugh about it.
All these knuckleheads crappin on women's sports must not actually know any female athletes. Most dudes absolutely wouldn't be able to qualify for any major college women's sports teams.
If you don't believe me just try sticking with the women's ski team a while. You probably won't be able to even do the dry land training, much less ski at competitive speed.
Shawn Palmer, but hear me out. Sure he never won a World Cup or was even on the scene for that long, but in his first year he came 0.15 seconds behind Vouillouz for second. The difference was he was hung over and likely high. Possibly still drunk. Anyone can be their best sober. It takes a true professional to push hard after partying to take a podium. That kind of grit deserves a place in history.
Plus if it wasn't for Palmer, most of us would still be wearing skin tight lycra. Lululemon would likely have a mtn bike line charging absurdly high prices for stretchy rags that show your underwear line. Riders would switch to wearing thongs so their underwear wouldn't show.
Palmer saved us from wearing thongs. GOAT!
And no, I'm not high.
Almost no one that doesn’t mountain bike knows who a single rider on that list is. But in the 90s and early 2000s people, in the US anyway, knew about DH because of Sean Palmer and Missy Giove.
That said, in terms of pound for pound influence on modern riding styles, it's Hill, full stop. By 06-07, it was obvious that his riding was a glimpse into the future, particularly his posture on the bike. Other racers have raised the bar in meaningful ways (Fabien's progressive bike setups, Bryceland's lazy flow, Gwin's life-or-death commitment, Amaury's unbelievable intensity, to name a few.) but SH is the one who singlehandedly changed the way we all ride, whether or not we race.
And for everyone who votes ACC, I can't fault you. One of our sport's true heroes, without a doubt.
Next……
Nico all the way.
It’s all just opinions, but the criteria wasn’t who’s the most dominant, or long lived, but - Who is the greatest, and relative to his peers, it’s still Nico.
His speed and style was just infinitely better than anyone else he rode against.
imo
Gwin is 100% the most dominant in history, the amount of wins and championships in the same amount of years is leaps and bounds above anyone else. (modern era)
Sam Hill, what a legend. Tough to put him anywhere but 1st. Not only has he been fast on any bike, in any conditions on flat pedals for ages. He brings together what downhill mountain biking means AND racing.
The women collectively share the same love and grit that it takes to be at the top for ages. This is what really sets a legendary professional and a professional racer apart. Coming back from numerous injuries back to the top spot. Competing against others on the track, while daily competing with themselves to get better. Much respect to them all!
But what’s really shocking is Pierron has so little votes when he’s pretty much the fastest most balls to the wall rider ever. He almost tied Gwins record this season and again the competition is higher now than ever. He also did it coming off an injury which makes it even more impressive. Watching Amaury race is always a treat, he’s a madman on a bike and he’d beat anyone on this list when they’re in their prime id be willing to bet.
Minnaar vs Gwin is hard for me. Minnaar is a legend and his longevity is an inspiration to me as a similarly-aged person who feels creaky after riding 1/1000th the stuff Minnaar does. But for me, Gwin takes it as when they were both at the very top of their game (Gwin's early peak vs. Minnaar's late peak, Gwin generally came out on top when they were going head to head. That seems the fairest way to judge to me, though I do give Minnaar incredible props for his longevity.
I think Amaury has the potential to get into those talks if he can keep his pace for a few more years.
If Rachel comes back and wins some more races... game over. The women's field is pretty deep right now. Deepest it's ever been.
Champ, 1 world cup overall, 2 times 2nd in rampage and a lot of top 5s in world cup…definitely one of the greatest riders.
(you have a major point, misses lubner)
Just look at this poll. Stats alone it should be ACC, but the poll says otherwise.
Just the modern era on stats alone it should be Rachel Atherton, but she’s not referred to as the GOAT, the male who is 3rd on the win list is.
But then you can argue that comparing race times RA would have regularly been about 40th place in mens, so even though she has more wins than GM, he wins it because he’s faster?
But then using that argument does that mean the 40 other male riders who are ahead of RA better than her?
Because DH is such a physical sports males will have a natural physical advantage, so does that mean the use of the GOAT term is actually sexist or discriminatory towards females as the two winningest riders in DH are females but they’re not considered the GOAT.
I don’t know, I just think it’s a crappy irrelevant term.
Anyway let the down votes begin.
I love watching modern racing, but I suspect it’s a little less fun these days to make a living at it.
Puking rain and a super steep ramp as a start.
They had a small car for the winner between men and women race.
They took the difference in qualifying and added to the men time.
Mike King won easily and so did ACC in their races.
Guess who won easily between those two?
ACC drove home in a new car.
Remember when ACC would race 4x with the men?
Rachel’s had a perfect season
Minnaar has longevity and a riding style that flows like water. He’s one of the only riders around where he can stomp the field and look slow doing it because he’s so in control.
Gwin was unstoppable and solely responsible for bringing the sport where it is, requiring pro level training and dedication
Sam Hill for outright wildness, style and making you want to go ride and get loose
Pierron has amassed a huge number of wins in a time when racing is more competitive than ever
Peaty was not only one of the greatest racers ever but had been mentor to many other successful racers.
The best racer has to be the one that has won more races given the number of races he/she has entered.
It's very different if someone races for 3 years and wins 10 races or another that races for 20 years and wins 10 races.
10 wins spread over 20 years in a sport like DH is to me more impressive than 10 wins in 3 years.
Then where to drawi the line? Do you consider only results from downhill or also ho big their impact was regarding drawing people into the sport or how they were percieved? How would you quantify that?
Do you consider only downhill or also EWS, XC, BMX race and freestyle, Road, Track, Cycle Ball, Artistic Cycling, Unicycling, Trials, Slopestyle etc.?
If so: How about Jack Carthy? How about Pauline Ferrant-Prevot with WC in Road, CX, XCC and XCO? What's with e.g. Eddie Merckx, Chris Hoy or Bradley Wiggins? How about someone from the freestyle scene like Ryan Nyquist? The list could be even longer if you consider all of the disciplines which are part of MTB or under the UCI.
i have a video that i filmed in La Bresse when steve Peat became the GOAT, beating Nico vouilloz victory , ...and Rob screaming that he is the GOAT, 16 victories !!!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPJUoyFqx_E&ab_channel=krazyjey
Freecaster did ask me if i have the part when rob arrived on a stretcher....as the weight of that moment was a GOAT moment. that was high in emotion .Cheers
They aren’t racing together.
Greg Minnaar is the one and only GOAT
win.
All due respect to his longevity Greg Minaar would have to be close third at the top however the argument that somehow things were 'easier' back those days is just nonsense.
The advances of bike technology, training regimes, data monitoring, even goddamn tires has come so far it's almost a different sport.
The skill and records those 2 had/have is unlikely to ever be matched.
Though, then again... Jackson Goldstone shows some promise.
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I remember hearing he’d died on the radio in the car.