| People who don’t believe that a task is possible should stand clear of those who are doing it.—anonymous |
Toby Henderson is not afraid of a fight. He spent the greater part of his life competing head to head with the heroes of BMX and downhill mountain bike racing, but nothing in his professional racing career could prepare him for the battle he would face shortly after he founded Box Components.
I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Henderson announced to his team at Box that they were going to develop a derailleur based drivetrain that would compete with the likes of SRAM and Shimano. I’m quite sure that Henderson’s presentation was followed by a moment of silence while the dumfounded guests were thinking, “Did you hear what I just heard?”
When the team managed to catch their breath, I imagine Henderson was blasted by a litany of concerns regarding the viability of such a project. When I asked Toby why Box Components took on such a humongous project, his reply was both simple and on point:
| There are only two big players making drivetrains. We think there is room for a third one and we want to be there.—Toby Henderson, BOX founder |
Box Two Drivetrain Rear Derailleur: Wide or X-Wide cage options, user-adjustable clutch.
Weight: Wide - 284g/X-wide - 290g
Price: $109.99/$119.99 USD
11-Speed Cassette: HG compatible, 11 x 46 or 11 x 50
Weight: 480g/559g
Price: $99.99/$119.99 USD
Shift lever: Dual-action release lever, up to 4 downshifts in one throw
Weight: 119g
Price: $44.99 USD
Chain: Nickel plated, 116 links, quick-link, 11-speed cross-compatible
Weight:255g
Price: $24.99 USD
Contact: Box Components Box Two: Difficult, not Impossible Box Two is not the brand’s first foray into the drivetrain business. Box planned to lead with a flagship system, sprouting with titanium bits and a matching MSRP. That was the
Box One project, which resulted in a seven-speed DH ensemble that has been competition proven on the World Cup circuit, and a sweet shifter and derailleur for their Box One trail bike drivetrain. The cassette, however, would have to wait.
Henderson says that Box One provided a steep (and expensive) learning curve for the team–but Box needed a more realistic goal if they were to make headway in such a competitive market. Henderson temporarily shelved the development of Box One’s showcase aluminum and titanium cassette in favor of producing Box Two – the culmination of everything that the team had learned, streamlined into an affordable 11-speed trail bike group that could spark the imaginations of both aftermarket and OEM customers. It was a good call.
Box Two Derailleur “Sturdy” is the word that best describes the Box Two rear derailleur. Its critical parts, the linkage plates and upper pivot body, are 3-D forged aluminum. Both sides of the pulley cage are also aluminum, while the lower “knuckle” assembly is glass-fiber reinforced nylon. Like Shimano, the cable actuates the parallelogram from an arm that extends above and behind the mechanism, but Box hinges it, so it can deflect upon impact.
| Box Two owners can fine tune the clutch friction with an Allen key... |
Box is justifiably proud of their “Tri-Pack” adjustable clutch, which emulates the multi-plate clutches used in motorcycle transmissions. Box Two owners can fine tune the clutch friction with an Allen key to either increase chain control, or reduce friction to attain smoother shifting with less effort at the lever.
Box offers the changer with a medium-length cage that shifts up to 46 teeth, or a long-cage version that can handle their 50-tooth cassette. The pulleys ride on bushings, instead of the ball bearings you’d expect to find on top-tier changers. Weights are 284 and 290 grams respectively, while the MSRP is $109 USD.
Click here to watch it in action. Box's Tri-Pack multi-disc clutch (under the red cap) is user-adjustable. An Allen screw (right image) preloads a pair of spring-washers to ensure the three friction plates generate consistent resistance. The needle bearing is the one-way clutch.
Box Two Twin Shifter Box Two owners can drop down four shifts with a single push of the thumb lever when faced with a surprise climb. That’s a helpful feature, and as the shifter’s name suggests, the cable-release lever operates in both directions. Similar to Shimano, the ergonomically shaped forward lever will happily shift either with a push of the thumb or with a pull of the index finger. Weight is pegged at 119 grams, and the MSRP is $44.99 USD
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Future plans call for integrated mounting options to fit the Box Two shifter to Shimano I-Spec and SRAM Matchmaker direct-mount brake levers, but at present, it is only offered with a discreet handlebar-clamp.
I paired the Box Two shifter with Shimano brake levers (which typically offer the most interference issues with bar-mounted accessories) and it provided a wide range of angular and lateral adjustment options.
Construction is economical and designed to go the distance. The well-contoured thumb levers are molded over stamped metal, so there is some flexibility apparent when changing gears in anger. I didn't pull the shift pod apart for a look, but the internals seemed very robust, with consistent action and pronounced index intervals that clearly communicate each shift. The cable adjustment follows suit, also with positive stops and a firm feel.
Box Two 11-Speed Cassette Box designed the matching 11-speed cassette to be compatible with the very universal Shimano HG freehub standard, which limits it to an 11-tooth cog on the small end. Keeping the costs to a minimum, the team opted not to machine the cassette cogs from a single piece of steel like SRAM does with their XX1 cassettes. Box Two cassettes are separated into three units: Two groups which are riveted to aluminum spiders, followed by a stack of five smaller cogs that slip on individually. The 50-tooth cog (or the 46 if the XC cassette has been chosen) is machined from 7075-alloy aluminum, while the rest are steel.
Two cassette options are offered. The more closely spaced XC cassette (11-13-15-18-21-24-28-32-36-40-46), and the extra-wide range Trail version that we review here (11-13-15-18-21-24-28-32-36-42-50). If you like what you see and your wheels are HG compatible, Box Two cassettes are cross-compatible with SRAM and Shimano 11-speed derailleur systems, and use the same spline tool. The 11 x 46 weighs 480 grams and costs $99.99 USD, while the 11 x 50 weighs 556 grams, with an MSRP of $119.99 USD.
Box Two Chain
Hey, it's a quality 11-speed chain, and the links are stamped with the Box logo. It's not rocket science, but if you are going to root for the underdog team, you may as well fly the flag proudly. It's nickel plated and made from heat-treated alloy steel. Box ships the chain with a quick link for $24.99 USD. Weight is pegged at 255 grams for 116 links. If you want to spiff things up, the Box One chain has hollow pins and weighs 243 grams, for only $39.99.
Where's the Crankset? The absence of a crankset from the Box Two ensemble was not a mistake. After SRAM successfully converted the sport to one-by drivetrains, there was little incentive for customers to purchase matching cranks. No front derailleur means no special shifting ramps on the chainrings, so any crankset with a narrow-wide sprocket will suffice (SRAM and Shimano were probably disappointed to discover this).
Smaller crank makers like Race Face and e*thirteen quickly swooped in to tear flesh from the two giants, leaving Box Components free to concentrate all of their resources upon the more technical aspects of their new transmission. We may see Box cranksets in the future, but presently, the team has bigger fish to fry.
Box Two Ride Report My Box Two ensemble came wonderfully packaged, but without assembly instructions. If you have previous experience installing a Shimano drivetain, however, then you will be well equipped to tackle this job. Toby Henderson says that they are in the midst of developing online instructions, but it's easy to figure out. The cassette assembles to the HG freehub splines almost exactly like Shimano's XT does, and uses the same spline tool to torque the lock ring. The only other tip I can offer is to run the chain one link longer than Shimano recommends. (I put the derailleur into the smallest cog and cut the chain one link shorter than the maximum length that would tension the pulley cage). That, and using the B-tension screw to ensure that the upper pulley cleared the 50-tooth cog by 8 to 10 millimeters created the best shifting across the cassette.
On the trail, the Box Two system pops off shifts with minimal noise. There are one or two places in the middle of the cassette that clank a little when there is no load on the chain and the derailleur is moving it towards the smaller cogs. Shifting to larger sprockets can be done under power without complaints from the mechanism, cogs or the chain. Individual shifts are slightly slower that I'd expect from a Shimano XT transmission and on par with SRAM's GX-level wide-range systems. To be clear, that represents good performance.
Lever feel was very good ergonomically. I liked the contours of the molded paddles and I have come to appreciate being able to shift with my index finger.
It's easier to access the release lever while I am leaning over the front of the bike. (Shimano riders will get that.) However, I didn't like the slight amount of flex that the thumb lever had when I was shifting more forcefully. That said, I had been riding SRAM Eagle XX1 and Shimano XTR before jumping onto my Box Two bike, so I had been spoiled rotten by forged aluminum levers riding on precision ball bearings. To Box Two's credit, the mechanism was accurate and responsive to every command throughout the review. I never missed a shift.
The Box derailleur requires more thumb pressure than both Shimano and SRAM to access the 50-tooth cassette cog. That may be caused but the reduction of leverage that occurs when the derailleur's parallelogram is reaching the end of its travel, but that is just an educated guess. It's not a deal breaker, but it can be sensed. I spoke to Toby Henderson about that and he said that the derailleur breezes up to the 46 tooth XC cassette cog, but admitted that it needs a little more push to reach the 50. Box is working on that for the next-gen changers.
Notes on the Cassette Eleven cogs seems so yesterday since the introduction and widespread acceptance of SRAM's Eagle 12-speed, but there are a busload of riders out there with HG-style freehub rear wheels who could use the extra range that an 11 x 50 or 11 x 46-tooth cassette can provide. Compare SRAM's 12-speed ratios (10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42-50) with those of the Box Two (11-13-15-18-21-24-28-32-36-42-50). The progression between shifts is identical in the middle and lower gears where most of the important shifts take place.
The first three shifts (11 through 15) provide a seamless progression, just like the Eagle cassette does, so all you're missing is the Eagle's ten-tooth cog. The advantage of Box's 11 x 50-tooth option is that it allows 11-speed riders to jump up to the next size larger chainring to get a faster top speed with their HG freehub's 11-tooth limitation without sacrificing a low gear for tough climbs.
Pinkbike's Take: | Box Two is a solid performer that clicks off every shift without requiring any attention, and that's the highest compliment that an essential mountain bike component can earn. It's a strong argument that 11 cogs are enough, but that won't convince every rider. SRAM's recent release of its 12-speed NX ensemble puts Eagle in direct competition with Box Two. Both are compatible with HG cassettes, both share the same 11 x 50 gearing spread and both have similar pricing. That missing click, however, will be a tough sell for a new player hoping for OEM sales.
That said, you can’t win the game unless you are in the game. This sturdy 11-speed transmission is Box Components' announcement that they are ready to take on the fight. Their opponents did not become giants overnight. Shimano began their journey by manufacturing a screw-on freewheel cog. SRAM’s campaign to take on Shimano began with a plastic twist-shifter. It may be a while before Box can stay in the ring for ten rounds, but don't count them out.—RC |
Or maybe smallest cog with 12 teeth for less friction and wear.
Or even better: An aluminium spider with bolt-on cogs, so you can customize your gearing and swap out your most used ones for new ones regularly.
PinkBike really is...the LARGEST source of bicycle news...in the whole freaking world. I mean...let that sink in. It IS a big deal.
Pretty bad deal compared to Shimano XT cassettes or Sunrace. Then the chainline isnt worth it.
I would like a 9 or 8 Speed Cassette with 11-42 Teeth and with smaller distances between the cogs, 11 or 12 Speed-like. Then it had good chainline, good weight, good gearing and if Sunrace made it, its possibly cheap as well.
GO SUNRACE or BOX!!! take the chance!
Shimano on the other hand... good luck.
Maybe I have to bodge one together out of an existing cassette and give it a go.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/16058215
Then when I get a FS bike I can reap the benefits.
Anyhoo, we were talking about drive trains. 11-42 6 speed clusters please, and more hubs with short freehub bodies, for those who worship the quad burn and rock solid backs.
Rigid to FS is about developing your deathgrip and upper body strength. Once on a FS you realise you can go faster and harder and you wont die. Since riding a HT my brain is getting better at interpreting the messages from my rattling eyeballs - cranial image stabilisation.... Plus riding RSS allows you to grow a hipster beard, drink farty ales (of trendy IPAs) and wear lots of plaid (none of which I will do).
BACK ON TOPIC...
Yes 6 or 7 speed wide range cassette that doesn't weigh a stupid amount. Out of interest Sunrace do an 8sp 13-40 but it weighs more than my 10sp 11-42 so there's not point - I will stick to double shifting.
That being said, I've seen a few of the "round 1" derailleurs break. Not sure if they were having issues with the casting or not, but it was not a robust derailleur at all. I'm all for alternate options for components though, even though I haven't had any issues with my Sram drivetrains.
Our strategy is to start with the basics and get those right first. After 3 years of development, last year we introduced the Box One group and had issues with some rear derailleurs breaking and a clutch that was not substantial enough. This was a big learning experience for us. We made apologies, listened to critical feedback and through honest eyes took what we learned and made improvements. The updated Box One and now Box Two groups have an all new clutch that we feel works much better and it is surrounded by a derailleur that is appropriately robust. In our next generation we will be offering unique solutions to drivetrain problems, but for now we are going to stay humble and focus on durability and reliability. To reinforce that promise we have introduced a lifetime warranty against breakage and manufacturing defects on all Box product. Please keep in mind that we also have to respect and navigate through a sea of competitor patents in this area. That is the main reason why there are only 2 others.
Basically I want a similar value offering that SunRace offers in their cassettes: great price, good performance, and durability.
Like many here, I'm not interested in more intermediate gears, so 11/12 speed drivetrains are really a heavier, less robust option with little upside. To be honest, I think nine or ten speed is fine, you may as well save some weight and get more reliable shifting instead!
Forged aluminum most spots otherwise make sense, gotta avoid that polymer creep, yeah?. I was guessing that anything subject to chain-line tension (from the derailleur itself..) would want to be metal, but hadn't done any full system research on your offerings. The GFN was easy to recognize and call out as such from a surface observation, but clearly not the whole story.
Are the composite polymer knuckles then just retaining the disks/spring clutch stackup? Pretty nice cost save play if so (vs cast alum). Piece price aside, I can imagine the NRE total for all tooling on these systems is not cheap, especially given the low volume nature and difficulty that poses to ROI / amortization of a given tool.
The more I look at the clutch stackup itself the more I dig it. Whats not to love about hex shafts to transmit torque and one-way-roller-bearings? Pretty clean implementation.
And in the drive train market, of all things, there should be only room for offerings from two companies? Why?
It's probably fair to say that there is no one in senior leadership at Shimano/SRAM that even knows the name of anyone who works Ibis, Intense, or the other smaller MTB brands. Their orders aren't even on the radar - they are probably labeled as MISC or Small Accounts on a sales report.
Box may be able to take advantage of this by providing better and more focused service to smaller, boutique brands who pride themselves on making quality products and having great personalized service.
Something like that even if it is the first attempt is not appropriate. That is for the prototype stage. I am not the Testpilot who get paid for smashing bits into the dust.
I am sick of consumer beta testing. My latest wheel set also from a new company , drivetrain total destroyed every ratchet within 4 month's and only 2000km. The bonding of the wheel it self is slowly going away. I am happy that I hit a rock last week that hard that I Buckel the wheel to replace the rim. Now with the rim in my hands I can see a gap.
I've been using the SRAM GX DH 7spd (11-25) on a 27.5 hard tail with a 30t ring. It's like an SS that doesn't spin out as easily and has a couple of bail out gears. 30/25 just happens to be about right for trials play on 27.5 wheels so it's not exactly a hard gear to turn. 30/11 is plenty fast enough because if I need to go faster I'm pointed downhill and I'm probably not pedaling anyway.
How did you find the 'lever throw' on the shifter?
I'm interested as I currently have a Sunrace cassette, XT mech with the Sun race MX shifter. the problem I have is having to loosen my grip an bring my hand/thumb far back to get the full 4 speed shift. I think it's a combination of bad ergonomics on the MX shifter,only one mounting hole and it doesn't gel well with my brake lever. Also a VERY long throw to get those 4 shifts, yeah I could have stupid shaped hands as well Smile
I find myself now thumb shifting one gear at a time to retain grip and control when shifting in techy sections were the control is necessary. So I'm defiantly looking to change out the MX shifter. Was looking at going XTR but how would you compare the BOX shifter?
Thanx
P.S I think shifter manufacturers should be looking at a massive range of adjust ability. Like bar mounts to gel with different brake levers, lever lengths paddle shapes an adjustable angles like the top Sram stuff
Not every body has the same shape hands so maybe shifters could come with a kit of interchangeable paddles?
I'll probably have to eat crow after the 12 speed XT/SLX comes out, is amazing and I switch to it on my mtb and then think about switching all the bikes to it ....ugh
What it is:
"Applies to non-wearing parts only where the main part of the product has physically broken or snapped.
Lifetime Warranty against breakage does not apply to:
Products that are bent.
Products that have been intentionally or maliciously broken in an attempt to qualify for warranty coverage.
Products that break during installation or as a result of improper installation or incompatibility.
Products that have been modified from the original design, with exception of products that have been cut to size such as fork steerer tubes or handlebars.
Normal wear and tear."
So you pay twice as much (SLX M7000 derailleur is like $55 & the shifter $30) for something that doesn't work as well, and when it wears out you still have to pay for a new one.
That's not really the point, however, more that shifters aren't really parts that break very often, and with the money you saved in the unlikely event of your derailleur 'breaking', you could just buy a new one with the money you saved.
I assume if your in the 50t on the trail spec cassette, you're riding up a f**k off big hill?
That's pretty XC to me?!?
So a lower minimum speed and faster top speed equal more range required for Trail when compared directly to XC.
Unless you are suggesting that the trail bikes are descending in the 46t cog?!? In which case, you're doing something very wrong.
If however, you are suggesting that XC bikes are (generally) lighter, thus require less effort (46t rather than 50t), then I see your point.
That's why descending is relevant because it effects the gear range that you will want to use. But yes, if you already have a chainring and can't justify buying a new one it won't matter.
I don't think they designed anything, these are just Sunrace MX8 cassettes. (Which retail WELL below the prices here)
The chains I guess are KMC-made.
Also Sunrace has a 11-speed groupset, not sure if this is just a rebadge of that.
As I understand it, these use Shimano's 11-speed MTB pull ratio, so it's an easy switch back.
Now, I'm so old, that I've forgotten enough that I go back to the book for a thing or two.
Life really is a circle.
Does anyone know if the derraileur/shifter is just rebranded from an overseas manufacturer or does box do all the R&D themselves?
There's also this- no idea if it's any good though.