Tahnee Seagrave to Miss Fort William World Cup DH Due to Concussion

 Agree. I'm confused, however. about what the taboo subject is. Anxiety? Talking about this isn't taboo anymore, is it?

 @rrolly: It's much less stigmatised than it used to be, sure, but it's still not an easy thing to admit to. Also, just because there's increased awareness it doesn't necessarily mean enough people understand.

 @rrolly: Missing a race and disappointing sponsors who all want screen and photo time due to anxiety is a taboo issue for sports people who get paid to race. I would guess. But yeah it shouldnt be and the sponsors should (and in many cases probably are, at least until renewal time) be OK with it.

 @paulskibum: Could you imagine how good the sponsors would make out by supporting someone who deals with anxiety? That's a win, for sure.

 @rrolly: facts, if only people were good at marketing these days...

 It's such a tricky situation. What would be the threshold for crash detection? Would 2 weeks mandatory rest be effective? Concussion is so unpredictable, unfortunately no single solution will fit all.

 What about g-force sensors on helmets?
Would be interesting.

 @effeffeff: would be really easy to integrate, it has been done in other sports unobtrusively. IMU’s are tiny.

 Exactly, all the expensive telemetry stuff to cut as much time as possible, but nothing to monitor affects to the rider.

 Sounds sensible.
Here is an idea. You get a sensor with your timing chip and plate number. If you record over xG you,your team and race organizer and uci get notified and you cant start another run at any event for X number of days. Your sensor has to be used every run. With your plate and timing chip so you can’t cheat the system
bikerumor.com/hit-impact-detection-device-measures-g-force-to-aid-rider-awareness-of-potential-head-injuries

L@effeffeff:

 I knew this was coming, Group B era of downhill is just around the corner. There needs to be tech like you said, but also there needs to be a limit on these bikes pretty soon.

 @inside-plus: I'd say so. What do you think it could be?

 @IntoTheEverflow: because athletes don’t often get to choose for themselves. Their managers and corporate sponsors (essentially their employers) still push them to compete holding their paychecks over their heads. It got to the point in the NFL where there are independent doctors on the sidelines and in the training rooms that determine if / when a player can return after a concussion.

 @ElDebarge: So no sensors in the NFL?

 @IntoTheEverflow: a concussed rider should not make this decision. Their brain is impaired

 @effeffeff: I don't see why a helmet manufacture could just include this in the box: www.tozuda.com

No electronics and dead simple. A bit pricey but perhaps with enough volume the price would go down.

 @nzmichael: This is why most good concussion protocols aren't based on trauma force alone but take cognitive baselines and retest after a potential concussion event.

 @IntoTheEverflow: you don’t see an issue with someone without a fully healed brain making decisions about their brain?

 Just wanted to share this for anyone quite interested in this topic- from the IOC Consensus statement on concussion in sport:

"Furthermore, accelerations detected by a sensor or video-based systems do not necessarily reflect the impact to the brain itself, and values identified vary considerably between studies. The use of helmet-based or other sensor systems to clinically diagnose or assess SRC cannot be supported at this time."

bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/11/838.full

I used to think that helmet technology was the key to preventing concussions too but from what I've been learning in physio school (and getting a bit more exposure to the research & experts in the field), it's not quite as clear cut as big impact = big concussion. For example, many concussion occur from the brain hitting the inside of the skull, not necessarily a big force being transmitted through a helmet into the brain. This is definitely an area of emerging research but the diagnostic accuracy of testing for concussions aren't quite as simple as they seem. From what I understand, the presence of concussion symptoms is the best indicator that a concussion has taken place.

 Woke up in an ambulance with a concussion last summer, 3 months of nightmares, hallucinations and panic attacks before I started to get better. Something to note, bike helmets are great at protecting your melon, but not so great at preventing concussions.

 None of it is easy diagnose, currently the easiest/most effective way to determine is to baseline test people prior to an injury, and use re-testing to determine cognitive ability after an impact.
However, this brings along its own set of issues, as testing bias, retention, and recall all play a factor in the baseline, nad re-test.
You can get a concussion from hitting your head on the the cupboard door, and not get one from a big crash on your bike. It’s a really tough science, nd we are only scratching the surface of it.

Most of the time the protective equipment we wear helps, sometimes it’s the cause, there is no clear cut answer for every type of impact, as the issue is your brain hitting the inside of your skull, not usually from the brain hitting the tree or rock…..

Then there are the mental side effects that come along with a brain injury, (aggression, depression, anxiety, loneliness, it’s a long list). It’s why people who have potentially had a concussion will aggressively state that their fine, their own brain is going into a survival mode, and sometimes that mode wants to deny that their is any sort of issue…..
The mental changes that come from concussions, and repeated concussions can be very drastic, and massively impact ones quality of life

Luckily for me my amazingly talented wife is a concussion expert, so I get very good care when I’ve had a nasty fall (which is regularly)
I wish everyone was as lucky, be careful out there kids

 @mashrv1: Riders can let a doctor have a look at it.
Instead of letting a sensor decide if you have a concussion or not.

 @IntoTheEverflow: you’ve changed tack now. Is it let the riders choose or have a doctor choose for them?

 @mashrv1: @mashrv1: I still think the rider should decide.
If your team wants to force you to ride, you can have an independent doctor take a look at it.

 @onawalk: Didn't know aggressive denial was a symptom. Neither did my doctor!!! Goes a long way to describing why it took me so long to get the care I needed

 @nzmichael: there’s so much to learn about concussion, it’s a brain injury, and the brain is only concerned with itself. Brian injury is a crazy thing, the aggressive denial makes treatment very difficult.

We still have so much to learn, lots of doctors still prescribe staying awake for the first 24 hours, that was always the concussion protocol when I was younger, which only makes the symptoms worse. Dark room, no screen time, get your rest. Your brain needs to heal, from the bruise you just gave it.

As always, take everything that you read with a grain of salt, whether it’s from your doctor, an entertainment website, or some anonymous PB commentator.

Good luck out there, stay safe

 Staying hydrated is important but too much water and you'll pee away your electrolytes ending up with the opposite effect.

 @Fiuz: thanks for that clarification. Yeah, you should be drinking electrolytes. I had a super innocuous crash a few years ago, just slid the front end out on the loamy edge of a corner, but hit hard on my side and bounced my head off the ground. Cracked my helmet and immediately felt off. I ended up spending the next 10 days listening to books on tape and painting bedrooms in my house super slowly to give myself something to do.

 @Fiuz: Most people are walking around dehydrated. Electrolytes generally aren’t lost by drinking water while not being active. They are lost via sweat, hence taking electrolytes as a binding agent for the water to stay in the body. Eating proper foods and drinking about a gallon of water everyday while resting is key to a quicker recovery.

 @dualsuspensiondave : But Brawndo has electrolytes. We're supposed to drink water??? Like out of the toilet?

 Follow a return to play protocol (parachute and McMaster university are good). Don’t rest too long. New research supports light activity (walking, gentle spin on stationary bike) for a better recovery (less symptoms sooner).

 Best way to stay hydrated is drink your pee. Midstream is best but never cross streams.

 Hope you heal up man. It's a scary place to be.

 Yeah I knocked myself out for 3 minutes once. That was my scariest crash ever. I rather break my collarbones again

 How long has it been since you had it?

 @mcozzy: sounds like you've hit your head a few times too many

 youtu.be/ZwBZkKVMlRc?t=360

If anyone was looking for it...

 @roberthavill: ouch, that's a big jump to come up short on

 @roberthavill: she's still being checked over at 8.30

 The top end MTB full face helmet are generally certified to MX standards, if I remember right. Been a while since I looked.

 It is not testing standards. It is the fact that tracks are getting faster and faster leading to larger, more meaningful impacts when you get it wrong. A new helmet testing regime cannot ameliorate for that.

 @jmhills: Ameliorate. Fantastic word!

But surely a new specification/testing standard is exactly what's needed, in order to drive progress towards safer racing in light of serious concussion injuries becoming so commonplace due to faster racing/higher consequences? I don't want to see racing neutered, and I want even less to see riders seriously injured, so I really hope that tech can fill the gap.

 @jmhills: yeah from what I understand the technology simply isn't there to protect you in all types of crashes. You just need ride with a level of risk you are willing to accept

 It's not that motorcycle helmets are better or tougher than bicycle helmets. Instead, they're designed for different scenarios. Bicycle helmets are optimized at preventing concussions and other injuries when cycling. Motorcycyle helmets would be worse for us because they're taking into account crashes at speeds never seen on a bicycle. Hitting your head at 70mph requires a different helmet than one optimized for half that speed. (A gross simplification of course)

 @Tambo: It is one of my favorites.

I would agree that a new look at impacts should probably be discussed. As tracks become "flowy" and less technical, speeds are increasing. Bike tech progressing probably has a good amount to do with that as well. A MIPS II, whatever that might be, is probably in order.

 For a second I thought you'd misspelled CBD.

 Also, Anneke Beerten has been doing a lot of speaking out on brain injuries. She got broadsided by another driver and has been fight back since 2019 IINM.

 @Augustus-G: See also Lorraine Truong www.pinkbike.com/news/girl-interrupted-lorraine-truong-head-injury-bmc-bikes.html

 How much money do you think should be dedicated to developing that product? Who fronts that cash? Who gets to own the technology once it's developed and profit from it?

Who reviews the data?

How are disputes resolved when a sensor erroneously raises a flag from either malfunction or accident (e.g., dropping the helmet in the pits).

 There's been a few suggestions of this in this thread a few times but there actually isn't necessarily a neat & tidy correlation between size of impact/trauma and significance of concussion impacts. I'd also argue that helmet technology is light years ahead of what it was only a handful of years ago, yet people are still getting concussions. Many concussions occur from the brain hitting the inside of the skull (versus from forces being transmitted through a helmet reaching the brain, which sensors, biomechanical testing would be addressing). There is a lot of concussion research emerging right now and hopefully the 'answers' are not that far away, but they aren't unfortunately as clear cut as being able to measure helmet impacts as a reliable way to determine if a concussion has occured.

 @pmhobson: The technology exists. It doesn't cost more than most other parts on modern DH bike. And having doctors clear competitors isn't new to the world of sports. If we can do anti-doping, this isn't something outside the capabilities of professional sports organizations.